Sunday, February 28, 2010


I would like to use this first blog post to talk about something that has been on my mind a lot recently.
The belief in a higher power is something that has followed humans forever.
People will argue about if a higher power is real or not, that isn't what they should be arguing. What is more important to look at is, has religion done society more good or has it been bad for our species?

Things Religion has caused directly or indirectly that is bad:
1. The Bible passage Genesis 9: 24-27 was used to justify enslaving black people
In the Genesis passage, Africans were said to be the descendants of Ham, the son of Noah, who was cursed by his father after looking at his naked form. Moreover, in Genesis 10, the 'Table of Nations' describes the origins of the different 'races' and reveals that one of the descendants of Ham is 'Cush' - Cush and the 'Cushites' were people associated with the Nile region of North Africa. (
2. The wars that have been raging between Christians, Jews and Muslims for hundreds of years based on the idea of spreading their religion.
3. War on Terror would not exist if it wasn't for the religious practices the Koran dictates such as spreading its word with sword.
4. Hitler used the Jews as the scapegoat for Germany's problems. He would not have been able to find a big enough group to be targeted if they were not separated based on their religion.
5. Discrimination based on sexuality. Homosexuality has been around as long as humans have been. By now something such as that should have found itself excepted by society. Religion has stated it to be wrong thus halting our ability to move past.
6. Discrimination based on branch of Christianity. "Catholics Eat Babies" written on your car window at the grocery. Picked on when all your classmates go to church for bible study and you walk home (Students used to go to church every week. Yes in public schools)

Things that Religion is responsible for that bettered society.
1. Set up common moral bases for countries.
2. The belief in an afterlife. (This is a factor most religions share. It is believed to be a major reason religion exists. This is something to envy Atheists)
3. Got people through tough times. (Dark Ages, Depressions, and smaller things)

(I understand the support for Religion is smaller but they are very important factors to look at.)

Now what you have to do is weight in both sides and figure out which one you think is better for the world.
What you must realize though is that religion will never go away. People will always want something to believe in. We need to feel like there is a purpose.


  1. Why would what religion does to our temporary existence of a physical world, be more important than what religion will do to your soul eternally if you choose to ignore it.

    Religion does alot of good also, it keeps families together, and its a book with a set of goals that a mother and a father can look to for decisions on whats right when raising a child. Dont kill, dont swear, honor your mother and father, dont commit adultry: these are all good morals. And I know as a kid I would hate thinking that my parents are just enforcing laws that they "Think" sound good. There needs to be a higher power than your parents, or else everyone is lost.

    As humans its easier to try and forget about religion because we dont understand it, and because if we choose to believe it then we have to put something over us and who in 2010 really reads books anymore? Of course its always easier to act like how ever we want too, anyway right?

    And fuck religion. Theres to many of them. Dont "choose" a "religion".
    Fuck catholics putting extra shit into the bible and having us do so many "hail mary's" to make up for what we do. Priests can't heal shit. And fuck jews taking shit out of the bible just cause its offensive to them cause they dont want the blame for killing jesus. And fuck mormans adding onto it. Look, the point is,is that theres so many people in the world that people are gonna wanna try change it, because God doesn't care about hurting people feelings, he doesn't care about letting everyone into heaven. Everyone is equally as wrong in his eyes, and he's just picking a few that get past the bullshit, and just choose to follow the bible and believe. And they dont even have to succeed. You dont have to succeed and be a perfect person. You must realize that you CANT follow the bible as hard as you try. Realize that your always going to sin, and understand that because you cant stop sinning, you need Gods mercy to let you into heaven anyway.

    If you're going to get any closer to understanding God. Not religion, I advise you just take the bible on its own and just try and understand it for yourself.

    Why do people trust other peoples opinions on what they think the bible means is beyond me.

    The bible explains that it was written so man can understand it, so it should be possible for you to get a grasp on what it means for yourself...and then you can choose to ignore it.

    Yes, in the bible there is slavery but God isn't supporting it. Slavery isn't even the point of the bible. Slavery is just another form of the sin of men. And it would exist even if the bible didn't exist because face it: We love it when people do things for us. And we love being higher than other people in status.

    And yeah no shit homosexually has always existed since the beginning of man. But man has also has always been sinful. So of course. And if the bible says its wrong, its wrong. No questions asked.

    Inconclusion, Yes the bible, has pissed alot of people off and has started wars, but it can't just "not exist". God doesn't give a shit if it starts a war, Man will fight with eachother anyway over little ass differences, and God doesn't care if we ALL die and go to hell, cause he knows thats what we deserve. He only put out this little book as a little chance someone might understand.

    Just know that whether any one believes the truth or not, the truth is right whether you believe it or not.

  2. I think you misunderstood my point.
    The idea is to take things from a logical perspective that isn't about if God is real or not.
    i am looking at it in the way it has effected the living world good and bad.
    I do this in order to avoid arguing about something that is based on someones faith.
    I don't want to change peoples minds.
    My object was to make you think and reinforce your beliefs.

    also i agree with your statement
    "Religion does alot of good also, it keeps families together, ..... or else everyone is lost. "

    That is one of my major points supporting religion.

  3. My object was to make you think and reinforce your believes too, no matter what they are.

    I understood what your saying though, yes religion does alot of harm to the living world, but religion is just a sense of reason for being alive in the first place. So as long as people are on earth theres gonna be religion.

    Lets look at your question:

    "Has religion done society more good or has it been bad for our species?"

    I think this really depends on what our species is supposed to do. Survive right? Anyone who dies in a religious war, is going to die naturally one day anyway everyone in our society is going to die. The only thing to live for is to fight for a happy afterlife, because its the one thing we're not sure of.

    Logically, species have no purpose.

  4. The only problem is that your assuming the person believes in an afterlife.
    I'm taking that into account here though.
    That is why i said
    "2. The belief in an afterlife. (This is a factor most religions share. It is believed to be a major reason religion exists. This is something to envy Atheists)"

    because i believe that is very important.

  5. mind if I butt in?
    The Bible also gives an account for our existence on earth, that we're here to bring glory to God and to bring more people to him.
    Not to better our afterlife or to get more glory here or there, but to give it to God.
    Now, there are people who disagree with that and simply live to better their afterlife, but the Bible says differently.
    Exodus 9:16 "But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
    The belief in an afterlife is indeed very critical, that most religions have an afterlife and that it gives us hope for the future, that we won't just die and that be the end of it.

    The God in the Bible does care if we ALL die and go to hell. The God in the Bible created ALL of us, and he isi so in love with ALL of us it's hard to wrap our minds around it. God wants ALL of us to come to Him, and He's patiently waiting for that to happen. Now He knows that this world is corrupted with sin and that, unfortunatly not everyone will come to Him, but the goal is to make the Gospel known and let the Holy Spirit work in people's lives.
    The Bible is more than a little book, is the only book out there that has had this much influence on the world as it has. Yes, it has started wars and caused deaths, but would that all really have happened around a "little book"? God gave us this book so we can get to know Him on a personal level. So we can know what His desires are for us and so we can live for something.

    I believe homosexuality is a sin, but so is lying, stealing, cursing, and so on. It wouldn't be right to go around discriminating against people who lie, so why should we discriminate against homosexuals? If Christians want to have any sort of influence on them, they should love them like Jesus loved them.

    "Just know that whether any one believes the truth or not, the truth is right whether you believe it or not." I really enjoyed that point.

    I might've just made this conversation more confusing. If so, lo siento. But I really enjoyed reading it.

    Pizzahead, what are your basic beliefs?

  6. Katy thank you for your insight.
    One major factor that all religions share though is the belief in some sort of after life may it be heaven, Nirvana or reincarnation. They do this because death is something all humans fear and to comfort people in this way works wonders for your following.
    I'm not saying what you said is wrong because that is something the Christian faith also puts forth in its teaching. I am addressing religion and faith as a whole.

  7. In my opinion, your question “has religion done society more good or has it been bad for our species?” is unanswerable because there is no way to measure religion’s pros and cons. We will never know how many people have suffered as a result of religion or found joy and meaning with it. I think a more adequate question is “what puts me individually in a better position: to accept or reject religion?” This is a question that I think can actually be answered. If God does not exist, then you live in a meaningless world, with no direction or purpose. But if God does exist, then life is meaningful, you have a purpose to follow, and there is the possibility of salvation from this painful world. Believing in God obviously puts you in a better position.
    But of course, more is needed in order to have faith in God than just wanting it to be true or thinking that it’s beneficial for you and/or the world to believe in it.

  8. Your right there is no way to "measure" the pros n cons from an unbiased position. But your own opinion and perspective is put into it and you personally can come to a conclusion.

    Also just because you don't believe in god doesn't mean you think your life is meaningless. That is your personal opinion. I personally don't believe in God but i still see purpose in my life. (Just because i don't believe in God doesn't mean i hate Christians or anything or plan to attack them personally or convince them otherwise).
    The only thing that bothers me though is the afterlife. I am greatly troubled by the fact that i cant find logic behind an afterlife. Makes me fear death more then a religious person does. I envy spiritual people greatly because of this.

  9. I'd be interested to know in what way you believe there can be meaning in life without a God. I don't think its possible. I think its easy for people to have the illusion of meaningfulness without God, but if its realy considered in the grand sceme of existence, the meaning disintegrates. Without God life is a brief moment in a endless stretch of nothingness. But hey just my opinion...

  10. My dad always tells me that it takes more faith to believe nothing happens after death than to believe there's a God.

    Our lives in comparison to eternity in heaven or hell, is equal to a blink of an eye.


    You may see your purpose in life on earth with out God, but so what? The best you can imagine your life going without a God is the best you can ever get. When God is said to have a place in store for believers that is unfathomable.

    That is why logically worrying about how much bad religion has done to our society, doesn't excite me much, because all life on earth isn't exiting.

    Life on earth is life without God.

    Life on earth is a life full of temptation to stray and doubt what really matters.

  11. My words exactly christine, nice. :)

  12. Ok so let me ask you this. Who would a god most likely accept into the afterlife? An atheist that did good throughout their life? Or a christian who went to church but never really did anything for the good of anyone?

    The way I see it is that scripture tells us the most important thing is belief. But WHY? Religion is all based off of man's greedy desires. The only right way (for me at least) to believe in a higher power is to be a deist with no scripture. How many times do you think the information in the scripture has been changed since it was written, by humans. A god as I see it would not really be as vain as to give a crap wether you believe/worship them. They would weigh your soul and look at the good and bad that you have done in order to determine the worthy.

    @Mike's Original Post

    "There is no morality when one's motives are driven by reward and punishment."
    Being good just to get into heaven doesn't make you good.

    I prefer to make the best of this life rather than worrying about what comes next.

    Getting people through tough times? Religion caused the dark ages and destroyed immeasurable amounts of scientific knowledge.


    Belief and reality are two things you seem to be getting confused. The issue of wether or not god exists is entirely separate from what somebody chooses to believe. If everybody in the world believed that I was a fuzzy pink unicorn it would change nothing.

    One thing I really don't understand is how people say religion gives their life meaning. How? You work through this life to make it to the afterlife... In short the meaning of your life is to die. I give my life it's own meaning.


    Yeah, yeah. We all die eventually, so it doesn't matter how or when. So then it would be O.K. to kill everybody on the face of the earth because, we're going to all die eventually. [That was sarcasm]

    Give your life your own meaning.

  13. @christine

    Ok, what is your life's meaning?

  14. Actually it would be okay. But nobody would do that cause everyones afraid to die and internally bible or not we instintivly know killing is wrong.

    Way to give me the sarcastic response, when I agree with your "be nice on earth" approach.

  15. Pizzahead your writing is drenched with ideologies that are focused around belief. I was focusing around things that happened in the living world. I don't want to argue your beliefs or mine. I want to point out the good and bad in religion in the living world so we can decide if it's effect is good for society and humankind.

  16. I agree with TheCandyMan on a large portion of what he said.
    His comment about the Dark Ages is true in ways.
    I would say though that the Dark Ages was caused by the fall of Rome and the mess caused by that.
    Religion caused prosecution during the Dark Age that caused things to stay "Dark" for a longer time.
    BUT it did comfort people by making them belief that this life may suck but when they die things will be better.
    That was my point.
    But you are right in a way because it didn't help get Europe out of the dark age.

  17. "Actually it would be okay. But nobody would do that cause everyones afraid to die and internally bible or not we instintivly know killing is wrong.

    Way to give me the sarcastic response, when I agree with your "be nice on earth" approach."

    Actually i believe there are people who would.
    People lead by religion and belief would kill large numbers of people.
    Islamic Extremists would have no issue with this because their religion says to kill people if they do not agree with their beliefs.
    Hitler had no issue to kill millions of people based on their religious affiliation.
    We had no issue enslaving blacks and using religion to justify it.
    Egyptians had no problem enslaving Jews due to religious affiliation either.

  18. Oh, well I vote no then.

    Religions effect for the living world has done more bad than good, because the majority of the world has turned away.

  19. When do you think people "turned away" Pizzahead?

  20. I agree with Christine. You cannot weight the effect of religion throughout the entire world. We can only weigh the effect we are willing to let it have on ourselves.
    An afterlife does give hope and comfort that takes away a little bit of the sting of death, but the majority of the focus of the Bible isn't about the afterlife. It's mostly on the little spec of time that we're on earth. Sure, we dont' have to be afraid of death and where we go afterwards anymore, but we know how little time we have here and we want to use it wisely.
    People abuse the power of the word "religion" and "faith". those two words can change minds in an instant. We can spend all our time looking at the people who have definatly abused those words, or we can look at people who haven't.
    The God in the Bible isn't going to "accept" people into heaven. Getting into heaven, according to the Bible, is determined by if we know God or not. When we die, God is going to either say "Yes, I know you" or "No, I don't know you." It's whether you have a personal relationship with him on Earth that determines your eternal setting. Not after you die, or before you're born, it's while you're here on Earth do you have all the chances in the world to get to know God.

  21. @mike Forsyth

    "When do you think people "turned away" Pizzahead?"

    Okay I thought about it, and I have to say that its progressively getting worse. But dont take my opinion, think about this:

    Are people fleeing from religion now days, or going towards it?

    I think if religion was doing good for our society,and making a good impression, naturally more people would would have faith in whatever religion was having positive effects on people.

    And now we have so many tragedys that you listed that kids are learning about in school and whatnot, like the holocaust, and they're thinking "How could there be a God and how could he let that happen?"

    In my opinion, Satan and demons have more power than we think and if there's one thing that is going to make people question Gods existence, for the most years,and the most effectively, that would be how to do it.

    And that's where you need faith.

  22. I don't think any true christian would question how god could let that happen because they would understand that god has a very hands off approach to human society and lets us mess up on our own.

    I think you need to understand though that I'm not talking just Christianity.
    All religions cause these problems.
    Religions constantly fight for control.
    Religion is commonly used as a source of oppression.

    I think if these people were less religious and less secular in regards to their own religion compared to others, then we would have a lot less issues in the world.

    I would also like to point out the fact that Satan was based off of Hades in order to get Romans to adapt to Christianity. There was a general evil spoken about but it wasn't in the same regard as we see now.
    This idea is the same when you consider other christian practices such as the Christmas Tree which was originally the Yule tree that celtic groups used for ceremonies it was added to Christianity to get them to adapt better. Same goes with the Yule log and the circle seen around the cross on Irish Churches added to help them adapt from their previous beliefs in the pagan god of the moon.

    I sort of went off on a tangent there but to bring it back to my main point. If religions acted more like this (even more extreme perhaps) then we could come to some common ground and stop some of these negative effects of religions.

  23. I have nothing against religion i just want to get ride of some of the issues that come with it.

  24. @ TheCandyMan
    “Belief and reality are two things you seem to be getting confused. The issue of wether or not god exists is entirely separate from what somebody chooses to believe. If everybody in the world believed that I was a fuzzy pink unicorn it would change nothing.”

    To clarify, I’m not saying that the fact that it is better to believe in God proves His existence. I’m simply saying that a world with God puts humans in a better position than a world without God, so if it is impossible to prove if God exists or not, the best choice to pick is belief in God. I was not talking about proving or disproving God, as Mike stated that it was not the intention of his post to discuss that topic.

    “Ok, what is your life's meaning?”

    I would say that the meaning of life from a Christian perspective is to come to the realization that humans are in need of a God, accept salvation from God, and strive to live a life that is in harmony with His will.
    So could you explain what you believe is the meaning of life from an atheist perspective?

    “Yeah, yeah. We all die eventually, so it doesn't matter how or when. So then it would be O.K. to kill everybody on the face of the earth because, we're going to all die eventually.”

    lol funny but this is exactly what an existentialist would say (aka an atheist who accepts the idea that if atheism is true, then life has no meaning)